Alder rust (was oak rust)

Please try to include photos to show all parts of the fungus, eg top, stem, and gills.
Note any smells, and associated trees or plants (eg oak, birch). A spore print can be very useful.
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adampembs
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Alder rust (was oak rust)

Post by adampembs » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:14 am

Not sure if this is an oak leaf doesn't look quite right for Quercus petraea - if it is, it would be another local record for Cronartium quercuum. The spores are too long for Cronartium quercuum, so must be something else.
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Re: Oak rust?

Post by Chris Yeates » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:38 pm

adampembs wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:14 am
Not sure if this is an oak leaf doesn't look quite right for Quercus petraea - if it is, it would be another local record for Cronartium quercuum. The spores are too long for Cronartium quercuum, so must be something else.
The oak leaf indeed doesn't look quite right because it's an alder leaf ;).

If you accept that it is distinct from Melampsoridium betulinum then this would be called Melampsoridium hiratsukanum.

I recall, in late August 2009, finding rusts in a replanted woodland ride in South Yorkshire. Within a few metres young trees of Betula pubescens, Alnus glutinosa, Alnus incana and Alnus cordata were all attacked, which made me wonder whether Melampsoridium hiratsukanum is indeed distinct, though that's hardly conclusive evidence of course.

cheers
Chris
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Re: Oak rust?

Post by adampembs » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:00 am

Thanks Chris.

Are these two rusts morphologically identical? I mean is there any way to tell them apart, I assume the genetic work hasn't been done and therefore they might be the same species, as you suggest.
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Re: Oak rust?

Post by adampembs » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:13 am

Google to the rescue
https://www.ndrs.org.uk/article.php?id=5011

The spores look echinulate at the rounded end, confirming it as M. hiratsukanum but I might look for some more to check the thickness of the episporium, and the length of the ostiolar cells of the uredinia (whatever THAT means!)
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Re: Oak rust?

Post by Chris Yeates » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:10 pm

adampembs wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:13 am
Google to the rescue
https://www.ndrs.org.uk/article.php?id=5011

The spores look echinulate at the rounded end, confirming it as M. hiratsukanum but I might look for some more to check the thickness of the episporium, and the length of the ostiolar cells of the uredinia (whatever THAT means!)
Caution has to be maintained when assuming that a rust recorded from the other side of the world (Japan) on a different host (Alnus hirsuta) would be the same as one occurring over here on different hosts. I hadn't referred to this back in 2009, but it does fit the circumstances referred to in my previous post:
Melhira.jpg
If I dig out any more info I'll keep you posted Adam. It does show the importance of making sure that hosts (and notes on habitat) are always mentioned when recording these (and indeed other) fungi.
best
Chris
"You must know it's right, the spore is on the wind tonight"
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Re: Oak rust?

Post by adampembs » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:12 pm

Chris Yeates wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:10 pm
It does show the importance of making sure that hosts (and notes on habitat) are always mentioned when recording these (and indeed other) fungi.
best
Chris
And also the importance of doing microscopy, even on rusts, where IDs are often made purely based on host.
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