Little brown job

Please try to include photos to show all parts of the fungus, eg top, stem, and gills.
Note any smells, and associated trees or plants (eg oak, birch). A spore print can be very useful.
Forum rules
Please do not ask for the identification of fungi for edibility or narcotic purposes. Any help provided by forum members is on the understanding that fungi are not to be consumed. Any deaths or serious poisonings are the responsibility of the person eating or preparing the fungus for others. If it is apparent from a post that the fungus is for eating or smoking etc, the post will be deleted and a warning given. Although many members do eat fungi, no-one would be willing to take someone else's life into their hands.
Post Reply
User avatar
adampembs
Frequent user
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Pembrokeshire
Contact:

Little brown job

Post by adampembs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:09 pm

Growing under mature beech and oak. Not enough deposit to see spore print colour.

The metuloids make me think of Inocybe but one was attached to buried wood. I couldn't get a smell.
No germ pore, smooth amygdaloid spores.
Attachments
DSCF3953.JPG
DSCF3954.JPG
DSCF3955.JPG
Twiglet-0006.JPG
z.JPG
Adam Pollard
Site admin

User avatar
Lancashire Lad
Frequent user
Posts: 739
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 11:59 am
Location: Red Rose County
Contact:

Re: Little brown job

Post by Lancashire Lad » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:07 pm

Hi Adam,

Probably way off if your spore measurements are correct, but to me they have the looks of Tubaria furfuracea or Tubaria heimalis.

See: - http://www.bioimages.org.uk/html/Tubaria_furfuracea.htm

However spores averaging ~11µ long would be too big.

Regards,
Mike.
Common sense is not so common.

User avatar
adampembs
Frequent user
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Pembrokeshire
Contact:

Re: Little brown job

Post by adampembs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:48 pm

Tubaria don't have cheilocystidia with metuloids. This is why I'm thinking Inocybe.

Flicking through Funga Nordica (as you do!), I see a number of Psathyrella spp have crystals on their cystidia, and growing on wood, perhaps its in that area?
Adam Pollard
Site admin

User avatar
adampembs
Frequent user
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Pembrokeshire
Contact:

Re: Little brown job

Post by adampembs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:19 pm

A nice enhancement to MycoKey would be to add distinctive micro features like ornamented spores, chrysocystidia and metuloids.
Adam Pollard
Site admin

roy betts
Frequent user
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 9:28 pm

Re: Little brown job

Post by roy betts » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:49 am

It's an Inocybe - it just happens to be next to some wood. You often find stuff on stumps which shouldn't be there eg: Lactarius.
So, next step, how far did the caulocystidia extend?
By the way there is a species of Galerina with metuloid cystidia: G. nana. It caught me out when I came across it for the first time the other month; but it has 2-spored basidia and ornamented almond shape spores.
Last edited by roy betts on Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
adampembs
Frequent user
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Pembrokeshire
Contact:

Re: Little brown job

Post by adampembs » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:02 am

Thanks Roy. I'll have to look out for another one. I didn't look after it, I'm afraid. I made the mistake of thinking it was a Twiglet, and didn't look after the stem. Having said that, I remember it being furry the whole length of the stem under a hand lens.
Adam Pollard
Site admin

roy betts
Frequent user
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 9:28 pm

Re: Little brown job

Post by roy betts » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:38 pm

A lost cause perhaps especially as we don't know the size of the cystidia and thickness of wall, also whether the stipe had a bulb.
Assuming 'average' values for the cystidia, no smell, a pruinose stipe and no bulb I had a look through Outen & Cullington and came down to
I. phaeoleuca (although the cap of that sp. ought perhaps to be darker and more evenly coloured).
It's a species that I regularly identify without ever being sure I've got it right :D - but it is supposed to be "common and widespread".

User avatar
adampembs
Frequent user
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Pembrokeshire
Contact:

Re: Little brown job

Post by adampembs » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:26 pm

Hi Roy,

Found another - no caulocystidia! and I have wall measurements of the ch.
[note: the length of the ch is in two parts (37.1+21.0= 58.1) as I cant see any way to zoom out in Micam]

Working through Alan Outen and Penny Cullington's 2015 key.
No caulocystidia - but hairy towards base takes me to key F
Spores with sub-conical apex (or indistinctly obtuse) --> 5 no strong smell --> 10 - cheilocystidia > 55µm long and not pyriforme/clavate ----> 14
14 Caulocystidia entirely absent ---> 15
15 Thick-walled cheilocystidia with lots of crystals - 1.8-3µm. -- > 16 not alpine --> 17
17 spores amygdalform, cheilocystidia no mucronate, stipe not dark brown when rubbed (*spores are a little big for this?) --> 22
22 stipe has no pinkish or violaceous tinges -- > 28
28 no scales -- > 29 --> 30 --> 31 thick ch walls --> 34
34 two tone cap -- >
Fits Inocybe phaeodisca var phaeodisca except spore size is slightly out.

What do you think? :)
Attachments
CH-size.jpg
Inocybe-stem.jpg
Adam Pollard
Site admin

roy betts
Frequent user
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 9:28 pm

Re: Little brown job

Post by roy betts » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:32 pm

OK, I took the "furry the whole length of the stem" to be a pruinose stipe (ie: with caulocystidia) whereas it was just woolly-fibrous!
So a different section. Yes the two-tone cap is a much better fit with phaeodisca (another I do record on occasions, again without anyone to contradict me :)).
Regarding spore size: Outen's key more or less follows Kuyper. But Stangl, apart from also mentioning Kuyper's measurements (to 10.5 x 5.5µ), says his measurements for this species are up to 11 x 6µ and that spores from Kuehner's original material are 8.5-11.5 x 5.2-7µ!
That's the trouble with having too many books..... or not enough.....

User avatar
adampembs
Frequent user
Posts: 1269
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 11:40 am
Location: Pembrokeshire
Contact:

Re: Little brown job

Post by adampembs » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:58 am

Thanks Roy. It is distinctly two-tone. The fruit-body size is a little small but I've tried alternate pathways, eg if I missed a smell, but they don't fit at all, so I'm fairly confident I have a match now, especially following your comments. :)

I'm really confident there were NO caulocystidia, I examined both a low magnification top-lit shot and a top stem section. I've looked at a lot of Inocybe stems and seen them before.
Adam Pollard
Site admin

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest